F1 Modeling Corner: Tamiya/Ebbro Chat Parts 3, 4 & 5

Projects Decided in the Hall

----You’ve been involved in car models since the 1/12 Porsche Turbo RSR 934 racer (sales date: Nov ’76), right?

Kiya Yeah. The 934 was such a big project that I was called on board, in a “Help us with the engine” kind of way. And for that, the Chief bought us the 911 that’s still on display here at Tamiya headquarters now, and told us “Go ahead, take it to bits”, and we tore it apart at the Chief’s home in his garage.

Tamiya Well that’s because if we took it apart at the company, others would find out we were going to commercializing it. But, well, as there was a limit to how far they could “tear” it apart, I took them to the Porsche factory in Stuttgart when the designers said “There’s still some things we don’t understand”. And then when I saw how the assembly process flowed there, I decided to incorporate it as-is into the kit’s assembly process… They were making about sixty 911s a month back then, you know. And it was laid-back, more like things being hand-pushed down the line and passed to the next station, than what you’d call a production line.

----The F1 1/20 Grand Prix Collection Series was a project that you proposed, Kiya-san, right?

Kiya That’s right. At the time, we only had 1/12, and the 1/12’s were high priced and required quite a lot of skill to assemble didn’t they.

So I planned something more user friendly, but at the planning meeting I was told that electric motorization would be a requirement. However I’d submitted my first plans in 1/24…

Tamiya But the details would’ve been too small to reproduce well in 1/24. And those F1 cars had exposed engines.

Kiya That’s right. And suspension arms and such would’ve been way too thin.

So in the end, I think changing from 1/24 to 1/20 was really the right answer.

Tamiya Ah, at any rate you know, getting along with Kiya was easy. And you don’t have to explain things to him each and every time, because he understands cars so well. And if I said something like “I really like the Jaguar Mark II”, he’d immediately quip back “Shall I design one for you?” with brimming confidence. You know, none of the other staff ever would ever talk with me like he did.

Kiya Yes, that’s right. And there were many times when we’d decide on a project while just standing around talking.

With the Fairey Swordfish Mk. 1 in the 1/48 masterpiece series (sales date: Nov ‘99) for example, which was the last one I planned while I belonged to Tamiya, I handed the Chief a book about the attack on the Bismarck as he was going away on business, saying “You only have to read the end”, and when he came back, he said “Guys, we’re gonna commercialize the Swordfish!” and so things would work out like that. And, since the Chief loves military things and cars more than most, projects like that would go through in a flash, if I tickled his fancy and pushed the right buttons.

The Hour of Decision Comes

Tamiya However, at one stage, I told people “Don’t let Kiya design any more”. He always wanted to do things that ignored profit considerations… And as president, I’ve naturally got to make a profit.

So then he said something like “I can’t stand being at Tamiya anymore!” and walked out on his own (laughs).

Kiya Yeah, yeah, yeah (chargin).

Tamiya Well, although not always the case, if I say no to something it doesn’t get done in this company. And I also thought he’d be freer, going independent on his own.

Kiya Ah, but that was actually a momentous decision for me. And I didn’t have much confidence.

However, the Chief would often tell me “If you want to do this so badly, then why not go independent and make it yourself?” every time I’d proposed a reckless project.

And then, just about that time, I found something completely new and different when we were developing the Collector’s Club series (diecast miniature cars) and thought “Could there be a road ahead for me here?”

----What did you think of Kiya-san when he left the company, and started operating as Ebbro?

Tamiya Well, for about 2 or 3 years after he quit I turned my back, and this guy did too.

----Ah, so by “too”, you mean you were like both ignoring each other?

Tamiya Yes! (explosive laughter)

Kiya Yeah, that’s how it was (explosive laughter).

Tamiya But when he got his showroom in Shizuoka, I went to see it and thought “What a nice showroom this is”.

But also I thought “…Can he keep it up like this?”, because Kiya loves cars too much you know. And as it often is with the things you like yourself, sales aren’t good when you commercialize.

Kiya Yeah, you’re right.

Tamiya That’s where the difficulty lies.

----So, then Ebbro finally got started in 1/20 scale F1 plastic models last year.

Kiya Yes. But of course I sought the Chief’s counsel beforehand.

Tamiya I don’t remember that (explosive laughter).

Kiya To be honest, I’d been biding my time for a prudent moment to broach the subject. That is, as one having belonged to Tamiya in the past, I didn’t think the Chief would simply say “all right” when I told him I’d be going into plastic models again, even though more than 10 years had past since my becoming independent.

So, I made up my mind about 3 years ago, and told the Chief “I’d like to do plastic models”.

And, the year before last, after conveying to Bob Tyrrell (Ken Tyrrell’s son, and manager in charge of Tyrrell-related licensing) that “I’d like to commercialize the Tyrrell 001 and 003” at the Nürnberg International Toy Fair, I got a mail from Bob a few days later telling me “…Hey, you understand the relationship we’ve got with Tamiya, right? I can’t give you any kind of an OK without permission from Chief Executive Tamiya”. So then we said like “Okay, let’s talk it over at the next Nürnberg International Toy Fair”, and wound up having a three party conference with Bob at last year’s Nürnberg in Tamiya’s booth.

And then when I inquired “Will this acceptable?” of the Chief, he still said “No way!” to pull my leg (explosive laughter).

Meaning Hidden Behind the Remora Fish

Tamiya Well… you know when I heard that Kiya was returning to plastic models, my thoughts were actually “It must be tough for him after all; he probably can’t get by on diecast models any more”.

The costs for diecast raw materials have risen so much now, and if you’re really serious about making them, your production costs go up. But then there’s also a flood of diecast models on the market, so you have to set your prices low. So, it has to be considerably difficult to make a profit.

And only a certain number of any diecast model sells to begin with anyway, so if you repeat your production, you wind up having them all left unsold.

Kiya It’s just as you say.

Tamiya But, I thought if anyone’s going to start into F1 again with plastic models, “Kiya can probably pull it off”.

Kiya And actually, the Chief was kind enough to ask “If you’re going to do F1 in 1/20, can we provide you with DFV engine parts?” But while he was kind enough to say that, those parts were designed over 35 years ago.

----Still, it was generous of you to suggest offering DFV parts.

Tamiya Well, he was once part of us as an employee, and I’d do anything to help someone like that, and support them as much as I can, not just someone from Ebbro.

But you know, all my former Tamiya employees are rather reserved with me, and usually don’t come speak with me directly like that. Kiya’s just so brazen, and doesn’t know when to stop…

Kiya Ta-ha, ha, ha, ha (explosive laughter).

Tamiya Indeed there are some company presidents who think “I hate people who’ve quit my company with a passion”. But, I don’t understand that kind of emotion. I’m happy to see my ex-employees grow.

Kiya Thank you so much for saying that. What’s more, the fact that we’re doing the 1/24 Citroen 2CV Fourgonnette that’s come out, as a double-named product with Tamiya, just fills me with pride.

Tamiya Well, if we didn’t do it that way, we couldn’t have another company displaying its product in our booths at the Nürnberg International Toy Fair and other places.

Kiya Um, that’s a rather cold matter-of-fact way of putting it (laughs), but, the shark and remora above our Ebbro name… That’s a clear statement of our “We’re hitching a ride!” intentions.

Tamiya You know, I was stunned when I saw that package (chagrin). You really went ahead and did it.

Kiya Well I’d taken the opportunity to tell you about the remora, but it seems you didn’t think I’d go that far.

----But having the remora there conveys a sense of the relationship that Tamiya and Ebbro have, and your personalities.

Kiya That’s what we want to convey, that Tamiya as the parent entity… In other words, that we were only able to move on it because of an industry leader.

Tamiya Yeah, it may be a remora now, but this one might grow bigger than its host shark (explosive laughter).

But you know, I have hopes for more double-named product developments like that in future, as it’s better to put old molds we’re not using at Tamiya to good use. Besides, there aren’t many model manufacturers in Japan doing product development now, who really love models. That’s why Japan’s model industry is slowly fading.

And, if more well thought-out products made by people like Kiya who really understand models don’t come out, things will only get worse. █